S1 200 and loadbox

Discussion - Series One amplifiers. The New #1.
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neuk01642
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:02 am

Wed May 16, 2018 11:08 am

Hey peeps
I recently acquired a S1 200 in excellent condition second hand and frankly it's a fucking monster and I love it.
Being that I'm not playing stadiums I'm employing a loadbox/attenuator partly to attenuate but also to provide a line out I can use to my interface for silent recording (a disappointing but constantly necessary fact of life).
The loadbox/attenuator I have is a Weber Mass 100 and this leads me to my question.

I have the amps power scaling set to under half (about 11 o'clock) and the master is also around half way. Am I right in thinking that with these settings the 100 watt capacity of the loadbox should be fine as I'm theoretically running the amp at or below 100watts or amp I getting this wrong and I'm liable to destroy my amp and need to get a high capacity loadbox asap?

Worth noting the loadbox is connected to a 100watt cab so there is also an actual load as well.

Any thoughts and advice greatly appreciate.

Jawoom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:00 am

Fri May 18, 2018 12:05 am

Took this from the FAQ section on the Blackstar website:

"Using speakers safely with Series One's DPR control

The design of Blackstar's DPR circuit means that the amplifier can produce peaks and transients up to and exceeding the maximum output power rating of the amplifier, even with DPR set to minimum (10%). This is because DPR lets you retain all the tone and dynamics of your ‘full volume’ sound at lower performance levels. Therefore, you should always use a speaker cabinet that has a power rating greater than the amplifier’s maximum power rating, not according to the DPR setting."

And as for your line out, why not just use the emulated output? I found it sounded awful when I was using it wrong (with a speaker cable still plugged in), but once I took the speaker cable out and started using it properly, the amp sounded pretty decent with the line out into my audio interface. I found this info also in the FAQ:

"Some of our amps are designed for use without a speaker load when using the emulated output for silent recording. When used in this configuration, the amp should be in standby and there should be no loudspeaker leads connected to either of the loudspeaker output jack sockets of the amplifier. Please refer to the handbook for more details.

The amps in the Blackstar range that can be used without a speaker cab connected when the emulated output is used in the way described above include:

- HT-5 range
- HT Venue range
- Series One range
- ID: Series"

neuk01642
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:02 am

Thu May 24, 2018 3:51 pm

Jawoom wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:05 am
Took this from the FAQ section on the Blackstar website:

"Using speakers safely with Series One's DPR control

The design of Blackstar's DPR circuit means that the amplifier can produce peaks and transients up to and exceeding the maximum output power rating of the amplifier, even with DPR set to minimum (10%). This is because DPR lets you retain all the tone and dynamics of your ‘full volume’ sound at lower performance levels. Therefore, you should always use a speaker cabinet that has a power rating greater than the amplifier’s maximum power rating, not according to the DPR setting."

And as for your line out, why not just use the emulated output? I found it sounded awful when I was using it wrong (with a speaker cable still plugged in), but once I took the speaker cable out and started using it properly, the amp sounded pretty decent with the line out into my audio interface. I found this info also in the FAQ:

"Some of our amps are designed for use without a speaker load when using the emulated output for silent recording. When used in this configuration, the amp should be in standby and there should be no loudspeaker leads connected to either of the loudspeaker output jack sockets of the amplifier. Please refer to the handbook for more details.

The amps in the Blackstar range that can be used without a speaker cab connected when the emulated output is used in the way described above include:

- HT-5 range
- HT Venue range
- Series One range
- ID: Series"
Hey Man thanks for getting back to me.
Yeah had a good conversation with Blackstar technical support as well and heres where we got to.

After initially saying 'don't use a loadbox. Very bad for the amp', we went through the 'just use the emulated out'. Now the problem with that is that it bypasses the power section and is taken direct from the preamp (confirmed by tech support), so you're missing half the amps worth of flavour. I bought my S1 because I love KT88 power sections and there was no way I could afford a VH4 or a Bogner Shiva or Uberschall, so when I'm recording, I want that in the mix as well even if it only adds 10% of tone. Also, I've used the emulated out with and with out a load attached and, I'll grant you it's among the best emulated outs I've heard, however I've got a load of IRs from the likes of Ownhammer and I use Two Notes Wall of Sound and it doesn't get close to being able to replicate that level of detail.

Anyway, the long and short of it was that the tech I talked to, who was amazing, said the loadbox I was using was one of the better ones and as Iong as I was conservative in the way I use it i.e. not diming the amp, it should be fine and was really the only way I was going to achieve what I wanted, which was silent recording with full fat amp tone.

I've since stumped up the cash for a newer loadbox with a 200 watt max handling capacity so I should be off to the races. Thanks again for pitching in with info. Appreciate you taking the time

Jawoom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:00 am

Thu May 24, 2018 11:33 pm

No worries! To be honest the reply rate in this place is pretty garbage. You are better off talking to tech support directly like you already have. They have been a wonderful resource for me over the years.

Good to know about the power section not being used for the emulated out. Interestingly enough the new 10 AE models (I have the Series One model) say "Emulated Output (mono, taken after the power amp)" so I guess they have improved that over time since the Series One amps are one of their oldest amps. On the topic of KT88, for a 10 watt amp the 10 AE model is amazing. It's my first KT88 amp and I'm really liking how large it sounds. I'd love to get a Series One 200 one day, but I'm pretty happy with my 1046L6 model.

This thread might also be helpful: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7144
I was considering getting a torpedo captor since it seemed like an awesome idea, but I just started playing around with the DPR more on the amp and I think I'm pretty happy with that.

What load box are you looking at getting? I'm curious now since the largest load box I knew of was the Torpedo studio which is 150 watts RMS?

Happy to help! It's always fun discussing gear, especially when it's similar to my own :)

neuk01642
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:02 am

Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 am

Hey man
The loadbox is a Weber Mass 200.
They’re reactive and made with and actual speaker driver so the amp see’s a load and response very similar to that of a real cab.
Also attenuated and has a basic EQ section for tone compensationn.
Had a Two Notes Torpedo Reload before and I’m not sure if the Weber isn’t better

Jawoom
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:00 am

Fri May 25, 2018 8:56 am

Thanks! If I ever get an attenuator then I'll consider it. It would be interesting playing with the compression from the DPR and then the attenuator itself.

neuk01642
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:02 am

Fri May 25, 2018 2:40 pm

Jawoom wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:56 am
Thanks! If I ever get an attenuator then I'll consider it. It would be interesting playing with the compression from the DPR and then the attenuator itself.
Thats pretty much what I'm doing at the moment.
I've got the DPR sat at about 10/11 o'clock and then the master at about the same then I dial in what I want to hear out of my cab or dial in the level for the line out to taste. Personally I think it sounds phenomenal.
I think there are a few options out there and I'm not shilling for Weber. I know the Fryette Powerstation has a 200watt capacity as well but that's also a 6l6 power amp as well as an attenuator/loadbox and as such it's MASSIVELY expensive.

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